The Garbanzo Annex

Contrary to political correctness, Israel’s Jewish fertility rate is surging at a time when the fertility rate of the ultra-Orthodox sector is in decline, due to its growing integration into the employment market and military service. The surge in fertility is produced by Israel’s secular Jews, and mostly by the yuppies around Tel Aviv and the immigrants from the former USSR.

“The stronger the Jewish commitment, the more likely Jews are to have children. Living in the Land of Israel is one of the strongest manifestations of Jewish commitment … As unique as the Jews are among the world’s people, their fertility in Israel is also unique among the nations, and cause for optimism about the future of the Jewish people,” David Goldman, author of “How Civilizations Die,” wrote (in Focus, Spring 2013, the Jewish Policy Center).

Anyone suggesting that Jews are doomed to become a minority west of the Jordan River is either dramatically mistaken or outrageously misleading.

American blunders through two administrations have set a regional Sunni-Shi’ite war in motion that the utopians in Washington are powerless to prevent. Young Mr Rhodes, who crafted the ”responsibility to protect” rubric under which American intervened against Gaddafi, can do nothing to protect the millions of Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis and others who will be drawn into the maelstrom. The resignation last month of the National Security Council’s human rights chief, the anti-genocide campaigner Samantha Power, might be an omen: the bungling do-gooders may not want to stick around to see the consequences of their mistakes.

The idea that Israel needs to persuade its neighbors to accept its existence is a line we have heard almost daily since the 1980s or even 1970s. Yet curiously the Arab street pays no attention to the scores of such Israeli gestures and the West soon forgets each one. And indeed Obama has forgotten those that took place during his first term, for example the nine-month-long settlement construction freeze, just as before that were forgotten the Oslo agreement, Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, the 2000 Camp David offer (including the offer to redivide Jerusalem!) and many more. [See footnote, below]

Guess what? If today Israel were to make a huge new concession, six months from now that would be forgotten in the West, which would also forget that there was no considerable Arab response. Israelis know this and so saying this kind of thing about Israel proving its decent intentions can only fall with a cynical thud. Such statements remind Israelis why they are NOT rushing to make new concessions or take new risks.

Note, too, that Western and European promises to give Israel a big reward if Israel takes a big risk or makes a big concession and the Arab side doesn’t respond have also been repeatedly broken.

Indeed, it was the Palestinian terror organization that invented the apartheid canard in the mid-1960s, years before Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

This charge, of course, is not only completely false but the inverse of the truth. If apartheid is indeed a crime against humanity, Israel actually is the only apartheid-free state in the Middle East – a state whose Arab population enjoys full equality before the law and more prerogatives than most ethnic minorities in the free world, from the designation of Arabic as an official language to the recognition of non-Jewish religious holidays as legal days of rest.

By contrast, apartheid has been an integral part of the Middle East for over a millennium, and its Arab and Muslim nations continue to legally, politically and socially enforce this discriminatory practice against their hapless minorities.

For far too long the pervasive Middle Eastern qualification of Jews as murderers and bloodsuckers was dismissed in the West as extreme views expressed by radical fringe groups. But they are not. In truth, those Muslims who think of Jews as friends and fellow human beings with a right to their own state are a minority, and are under intense pressure to change their minds.

All over the Middle East, hatred for Jews and Zionists can be found in textbooks for children as young as three, complete with illustrations of Jews with monster-like qualities. Mainstream educational television programs are consistently anti-Semitic. In songs, books, newspaper articles and blogs, Jews are variously compared to pigs, donkeys, rats and cockroaches, and also to vampires and a host of other imaginary creatures.

The reasons for the concern are deeper than this, and stem from the cultural mindset of the region. An Israel that has a strong character and is confident of itself and the justice of its cause, might stop behaving like a dishrag, as it has done in the past, more than once, under the irresponsible leadership of the bleeding hearts who are the “Pursuers of Peace”, and might adopt a pattern of behavior typical to the Middle East. More than a few Israeli politicians, some of them prime ministers, who sought “a solution now” have earned for Israel the image of “peace seekers”, according to their point of view, but which the Middle East understood as “Obsequious beggars pleading for a little peace and quiet”. In the Middle East only the vanquished, pleading for his life to be spared, begs for peace, and usually he will get a big, strong kick that will hurl him all the way down the stairs. Peace is the last thing you get when you beg for it.

In the embattled region where Israel is situated, the weak individual gets beaten up: he is shot at, missiles rain down upon him, his buses are blown up, he is de-legitimized, marginalized diplomatically, sued in international courts, states are established on his back that threaten him and declare their violent struggle against him again and again, and he – the weak one – must take all of this garbage that is rained down upon him and say, “It’s only words”. Sometimes he issues a warning but few take him seriously because he is weak and obsequious; he “seeks peace”.

In contrast, only the strong and self-confident, he who can pose a threat, who does not restrain himself at all from utilizing full force, who will not surrender anything due to him, will have peace and tranquility. Everyone else will leave him be because they fear him, and this is the only peace that is recognized in the Middle East. Peace belongs to the one who responds with great power to the first missile that falls into his territory, even if it falls in an open area; who doesn’t say on the radio, “no damage was caused”, because the truth of the matter is that indeed great damage was caused to his sovereignty, and nothing is more important than his sovereignty.  Would a normal person accept someone shooting at his house, even if “no damage was caused”?

Such nuances feature prominently in Zahran’s thinking. He is vehemently opposed to what he sees as the cynical exploitation of the Palestinian cause by Arab leaders, a phenomenon which he blames for his own family’s repeated displacement from the outskirts of Jerusalem.

‘As long as the Palestinians fight with the Israelis, no one will turn around and look at what the Arabs are doing to one another’

“They were listening to Nasser’s Egyptian radio [in 1967] saying that ‘the Jews are butchering everyone and raping the women.’ It was one of the ironies that their relatives who stayed saw none of that. We have never had a single relative killed in the so-called ‘Jewish massacres of the Palestinians.’ It shows it is the Arabs who played the greater role in terrorizing the Palestinians and creating Palestinian misery. Nasser’s Egypt actually gave them instructions to leave… and then gave them the promise that it would be a very short time before they’d be back home.”

He says his family suffered the same ordeal in 1948: being pushed to leave their homes in what would become Israel through what Zahran sees as an ongoing, and baseless fear campaign: “They got fooled twice.”

“There is a huge campaign to terrorize the Palestinians. As long as the Palestinians fight with the Israelis, no one will turn around and look at what the Arabs are doing to one another. Look, no one is really reporting much about Assad bombing Palestinian refugees with Mig 29s but you can read all about the latest car accident in Jerusalem,” he says in a refrain often espoused by Arab liberals and dissidents. “The Palestinian cause is a necessity for the Arab regimes — and one of the regimes that prospered most from this is the Hashemite regime.”

The Palestinian narrative of victimhood, emphasizing the pitiful condition of Palestinian refugees, and portraying them as the world’s major refugee problem, has convinced many in the international community to accept this version of their unfortunate plight and the injustices done to them.

That narrative, however, essentially one of historical revisionism, denies the truth that the Jews who left, fled, or were expelled from Arab countries can really be regarded as refugees, as well.

The story of these Jewish refugees has been much less well known than that of the Palestinian refugees, about whose fate international resolutions have been passed, and on whose behalf thirteen UN agencies and organizations have provided aid. The issue of the legitimate rights of the Jewish refugees, and the individual and collective loss of their assets, have not yet been seriously addressed; nor have there been any real attempts in international forums at the restitution of their rights and assets.

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In general, Jews in Arab countries living under Islamic rule, were treated as dhimmis, barely tolerated second class citizens, often obliged to pay a tithe, or tax, called a jizya, to remain in the country. In some places, they were allowed limited religious, educational, and business, opportunities, but in other places, they were denied civil and human rights; suffered legal discrimination; had property taken, and were deprived of citizenship.

In the 20th century, both before and after the creation of Israel, in a number of Arab countries Jews were threatened — physically, economically, and socially. Jews there experienced riots, mass arrests, confiscation of property, economic boycotts, and limits on employment in many occupations. They also endured limits on admission to colleges, and on personal movement, as well as pogroms which occurred in Libya, Syria, Morocco, and especially Iraq, where in the space of two days in June 1941, in Baghdad, a pogrom, known as the Farhud, took place: under the pro-Nazi regime of Rashid Ali al-Gaylani, 179 Jews were murdered and 600 injured by rioters.

In Libya, in 1945, rioters in Tripoli killed more than 140 Jews. A number of other Arab countries saw Jews murdered, kidnapped, and in general encounter discrimination, expulsion, and exclusion from citizenship.

The Arab League countries decided to take away the citizenship of their Jews. Iraq deprived its Jews of their citizenship in 1950, and of their property in 1951. Egypt and Libya issued laws that “Zionists” were not nationals. They disregarded Jews having lived in those countries for more than a thousand years before the birth of Muhammad in 570, and the emergence of Islam in the 7th century.

Peace in the Middle East

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BDS leaders and activists tend to make a lot of noise around what they consider “successful” campaigns, i.e. affirmation of specific calls for boycott. One of their main targets are Israeli products, and more specifically items produced in the Palestinian/ occupied territories.
A recent example is the plan to change the labeling of these products in South Africa, A prospect that sent the BDSers to celebrate with joy – Online and offline.
What they probably don’t take into account is the fact that these factories they call to boycott and shut down, pay salaries to thousands (around 15,000) of Palestinian workers, receive social benefits and the same paychecks as the Israeli workers.
I simply cannot understand this call for boycott. Are thousands of families and individuals becoming unemployed a good thing? Will the fact that they will lose their source of income a reason to celebrate? Is the unholy principle of boycott more important than actual people, with actual lives (Not internet ”personas”) being fired?
Take for example the Lipski Plastic Industries factory, located in the Barkan Industrial Zone. There are 80 workers in this factory, 40 out of which are Palestinian. But apparently these concerned workers are simply not part of the BDSers’ plan. No-one cares about them losing their jobs.
The away I see it, these factories are small colonies of co-existence, places where Jews and Arabs work together. I don’t see the sense in boycotting (And hoping to shut down) these places.
Has anyone heard of a campaign calling to buy Palestinian produce’ rather than boycotting? Of course not, because BDSers believe that hate and destruction are more effective than cooperation and debate
The more I look into this issue’ the more I feel that the BDS activists have, in fact, no real desire of peace and that will do anything in their power to avoid it – As long as their self-righteous facade is kept in tact.

All the while, actual Palestinian factories are being bombed and blocked, so normal Palestinians can’t make a living. The point of this boycott is to show the injustice forced upon by Israel.

False. The only places being bombed are the places that Hamas is using as headquarters to fire rockets into Israel. Hamas chooses to fire rockets out of civilian areas, which include neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, and hospitals. Hamas does not care about casualties—in fact, they fire rockets from these places intentionally to create casualties and thus bring more condemnation against Israel. Hamas is to blame for the plight of its people. Boycotting is not solving anything, it is just creating more problems. The real solution would be to stop Hamas from embezzling all the money sent to the Palestinians and for them to use it to help their people instead of buy weapons.

Actually, there have been several occasions where Isreal has bombed none Hamas targets, one example was this Cheese and Yogurt factory, which had been bombed 4 times since the 2008-09 war, and has nothing to do with the conflict.

Furthermore, Hamas has largely upheld the peace treaty with Israel. Rockets are being fired by other militant groups. (You may have to scroll down in order to find the info)

As I have maintained in past blogs, the only way to finally ensure peace, is for Israel to give back the land it took during the 6 Day War through negotiations. That is the only way to solve the conflict.

Hamas can’t control the other terrorist groups, or they don’t want to? They avert their gaze so they can deny responsibility. “Who us? No way! It’s those other terrorists! Really!” No, it’s Hamas, either implicitly or in complicity.

Israel was under constant attack before the Six Day War, so how could anybody think that returning the land would solve a problem that began long before 1967? Especially when Israel evacuated Gaza and was rewarded with rocket attacks. And then there’s the Hamas charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, borders be damned. Meanwhile, the Palestinians under the PA have refused statehood. They too, refuse to live in peace with a Jewish state.

The way to solve the conflict is to halt all aid to the Palestinians. Force them to take responsibility for their own sorry, self-inflicted state.

Is that the same lack of control Israel has for Jewish Extremists as well? The same extremists attack innocent Palestinians and are considered ‘terrorists’ by the United States? Better look at yourselves before you start blaming others for the lack of peace. 

This conflict has changed since the founding of the Israel. For all the talk of destroying it, Palestinians do accept the existence of the Jewish state. This was what lead to the Oslo peace accord. What they don’t accept is the illegal occupation of their land. Even if Israel has removed its ground forces, its domination of Gaza’s airspace, territorial waters, and restrictions on how many people can get out, means that the United Nations and the international community still deems it as occupied. This was the reason why Hamas was democratically elected in 2006.

Furthermore, if you’re going to back your claims that Palestinians don’t want a state, you might want to choose a source that isn’t biased, and actually gives facts. Ehud Olmert never gave offer for land, like most Israeli PM that came before him. The only person who would was Yitzhak, and he was killed for it.  Recognition of a Palestinian state is actually good for peace, but Israel has gone so far to stop it, that they’ve actually blackmailed the PA, by threatening to cut off it tax revenues.

As for Camp David, the negotiations failed because refused to give back all the land it took. Most of the Israeli concessions was land that was legally Palestinian land, and accepting the deal would have meant forfeiting what was rightly theirs under international law. It was the standing of the USA that negotiations start with the precondition that the pre-1967 boarders would be the basis of the talks but Israel refused to agree to this. You can read about it here.

As for your solution, if it can be called that, basically shows how completely ignorant Zionists are. Your so wrapped in your paranoia, that you won’t admit the your own faults that fueling the conflict. Get you heads out of yours asses, and make the land offer that proves that Israel does really want peace. 

I notice that whenever I argue with an Israel hater, once I poke enough holes in their Israel-hating bubble they start with insults and name-calling. Israel haters can’t stand the intrusion of reality into their “blame the Jews” fantasy world. So in return, thou art an artless beetle-headed foot-licker and a gorbellied flap-mouthed measle.

Then there’s the whining about bias in the sources I use. Bias? You bet, there’s a complete bias toward honesty. You want more bias? Here’s a site exposing the anti-Israel bias at the UK Guardian. Read it and weep. The point is not that there is bias. All sources are biased. The question is: who’s telling the truth? Hint: it ain’t your side.

Then there’s the moral equivalence angle. While the attacks by Jewish extremists are reprehensible, they are condemned by Israeli leadership, unlike Hamas, who takes a “What me worry?” position on their terrorists. And if we look at sheer numbers and fatality rates, there is no comparison to Palestinian homicide bombers, rocket attacks, baby killers, etc.

Palestinian children’s shows are full of anti-Israel incitement and anti-Semitism. Streets and public places are named after terrorist child killers. They do not accept Israel. PA maps show no Israel. Admit it. If Hamas ever decided to live in peace with Israel, the blockades and controls would be gone. They want a state of war against Israel and then they want to whine to the world that Israel isn’t being nice to them.  Again, they don’t have to take responsibility because they have cheerleaders like you.

It seems that if the Palestinians don’t get exactly what they want, rather than negotiate some more, they rev up the killing machine. Of course, now Abbas is avoiding negotiations altogether on a Palestinian state that could have been in place since 1948.

Why should Israel give back any more land in return for nothing (or for rocket attacks in the case of Gaza)?  Israel gave back the Sinai in return for peace, but we’ll see if the Muslim Brotherhood wants to continue that peace or if they, in order to take Egyptians’ minds off of how badly their being burned by their own government and turn their citizens’ savagery toward the Jews, repudiates the agreement. How many times are the Islamic nations allowed to start wars and promote terrorism with no consequences? How many “do overs” are they allowed in their quest to destroy the Jewish state? When has anything ever been demanded of the Palestinians in return for the “painful concessions” always asked of Israel?

Ok, lets get some things straight before we continue.

First off, I “do not” hate Israel. I believe that Israel has the right to exist, and I also believe in the two state solution. I also find it terribly ironic when you talk about how “Israel Haters” are stuck in their “Blame the Jews” Fantasy world, when you yourself are stuck in what could be best described as a “Blame the Arabs” mentality. This is why I called Zionists ignorant, because even I can admit that I can be wrong sometimes, but Zionists can’t. 

Secondly, I do not support Hamas. They are a terrorist organisation, and have committed crimes against the population of Israel. My main arguments are against Israeli foreign policy, and how Israel is the one blocking the route to peace.

So lets get started. So that site you linked to me, while I can’t go through every it posts about the Guardian, being it would take far too long, I can talk about one such story. It uses the story as an example of bias, but it comes from the comment is free section, where anyone can write whatever they want. Even I would admit that the article doesn’t comprehend the full nature of the conflict. 

As for the other stories about the Guardian, they mostly talk about how the Guardian is failing to report the attacks by Militants. I’ve already talked about the subject in another blog, so here it is:

Its a sad fact that only death can bring the worlds’ attention. Right know, the biggest stories that are coming out of the Middle East are about the Syrian civil war, and the bombings in Iraq. Stories comes and goes, and only those with the biggest headlines get the most attention. Still, just because newspapers are limited, doesn’t mean that the internet isn’t. The fact that we can learn about this here is a bigger triumph for journalism. It’s just up to us to interpret these facts.”

Even you have to admit that at the end of the day, It’s the facts that matter. Even though  the Israeli Leadership condemned these attacks, they have done nothing to prevent further attacks from happening. In fact, it continues to become worse. Even in face of this, nothing seems to have happened to stop these attacks. As for your comparison, it doesn’t really match up when you take into account the Gaza war, where 926 civilians were killed. You can see why Gazans don’t view Israel in a favorable light. 

This whole conflict is based on a eye for an eye mentality. One side attacks, and the other side retaliates. Only Israel has the power to end it, because it is occupying land that legally belongs to Palestine. By giving the land back through negotiations, Hamas and other Militants will lose their support, and their power. They were elected by the people of Gaza, they can be overthrown by the people of Gaza.

Israel however, has refused to agree to this. You claim that Israel has made efforts to give back land, but you don’t back it up. The truth is while Israel talks of peace, settlers continue move into illegally occupied land. They know that this will disrupt the peace process, but they carry on anyway. 

The fact is that the peace process has not gone far enough. Nothing has accomplished for the last decade, and its that reason that the attacks keep on coming. It’s sad to see it go this way, and is also sad how neither side has made any mass attempts of starting the peace process. The only thing they keep doing is point fingers at each other. 

Still, I maintain that Israel is the one that needs to make the first move. It’s continuing occupation of the Gaza strip, and the West bank settlements are the main cause for the conflict today. Arabs have moved on from trying to get rid of Israel. Now they want is rightfully theirs under UN law.

Ahh, so you take the “moral equivalence” route. I know others who take the same mode of thought. You’re all wrong, and here’s why. You have to ignore certain facts in order to still accept it, for example, the two state solution. It doesn’t matter whether or not you believe in it. Neither Hamas nor the PA, not to mention the rest of the Islamic world believes in it. They have the firearms to wreak violence in quest of their one state solution. That trumps both of our keyboards.

Speaking of Hamas, they admit that 600-700 of their terrorists were killed during Cast Lead. As they wear no uniform it’s easy to pretend that they were civilians. That doesn’t leave room for the previously claimed 926 civilian deaths. Of course Hamas conducts operations from heavy populated areas, using Gazans, especially children as human shields. They militarize schools, hospitals, and mosques hoping that civilians will be killed so that Israel will be condemned.

And there is no “eye for an eye mentality”. Hamas targets women and children. The IDF targets Hamas. Yes, unfortunately Gazan civilians die. Review my section on Hamas’ use of human shields.

You ignore generations of violence to pretend that this is strictly a modern conflict that began after the 6-Day War. Arabs began slaughtering Jews even before Israel became a state. Recall the Hebron Massacre in 1929, and that was only one of many. If the facts matter, then look at facts previous to 1967.

Your analysis of negotiations is, I’m sorry to say, naïve at best. Yes, Hamas was freely elected, but don’t ever look at them to give up power. Any support that Hamas has lost has been due to corruption and the cruel treatment of Gazans. The only way they can be overthrown is through violence by the Palestinian people.  Don’t count on any more free elections in Gaza, at least with non-Hamas candidates. For more on this subject, see Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and the rest of the Islamic world.

How does the land belong to “Palestine?” Egypt and Jordan occupied it from 1948 to 1967 and nobody cared. Before that Jews who moved into Palestine, a backwater of the Ottoman Empire acquired land legally.

It’s time to recognize that the peace process is a myth. As I previously stated, absent the constant refusal of the Arabs to accept it, there could have been a Palestinian state back in 1948. Current Palestinian leadership refuses to negotiate, and previous Palestinian administrations have duped a number of American and Israeli leaders. Good faith was never a Palestinian tactic. That’s obvious by Palestinian intifadas, terrorism, rocket attacks, riots, etc.

Since the Palestinians aren’t interested in peace, but demand to simply be handed everything they demand like a nursery full of spoiled children, why not expand settlements? Palestinians need to be held to the same standard as ever other nation if they expect to become a nation and to know that the longer they refuse peace the more they will lose. It’s called learning to taking responsibility for one’s actions, something that has never been demanded of the Palestinians. By not holding Palestinian leadership accountable (and I don’t mean in the morally equivalent manner you profess) the world allows and encourages Palestinian obstreperousness, hate, and violence.

Who is really willing to live in peace? Look at each society and what they value. (Refer back to the Palestinian public places named after terrorists). There are Jewish, Muslim, and Christian citizens of Israel with equal rights. Not so in Gaza or the West Bank. The Christian minorities are shrinking in both places (while growing in Israel). And Jews? Yeah, right

Shame, I thought you actually address the settlement issue, but you continue to blame the Palestinians for practically everything. You even go on to repeat the claim that everyone is out to destroy Israel, despite the PNA, the legitimate representatives of the Palestine people, recognising Israel’s right to exist. You can show me that link from before, but it’s ridiculous to say this is what the actual leadership thinks. You can point to Hamas’s charter as well, but in the end, their power comes from anger from Israel, and it’s continued occupation of its land.

Yes, Hamas has committed atrocities during the war, but this does not excuse Israel from doing the same thing. During the war, Israel committed similar atrocities, including the shelling of neighborhoods, and using children as human shields. You can find more examples here. True, there a long list of massacres of Jews, though I find it funny that you use an example where in the same event, 435 Jews were saved by Arab families, but there is also a long list of Arab massacres too. Like I said, in the end, it really does become an eye for an eye.

It is also true that Hamas won’t give up power that easily, and that they have abused their power, but they are not stupid. In the face of vast opposition to them, they will back down. They have already shown this, when they dropped their support for President Assad, even at the cost of Iranian funding. Your view that the Islamic world rules against its people is completely out of touch with the realities on the ground, and reflects Israel’s own paranoia.

As for your argument that the land didn’t belong to Palestine in the first place, it is a view only shared by Israel. The rest of the international community however, agrees that the land taken during the 6 day war, still constituted as territorial violations, and thus illegal. Egypt and Jordan both represented the Palestine territories, and passed these claims onto the PLO. You can brag about the technicality all you like, the international community has spoken.

As I said before, Israel has to give back the land it has taken if it is serious about peace. Everyone agrees that it is the settlements that are the main roadblocks to peace, but Israel continues to increase their size. You call Palestinians spoiled children, but this evidence proves that Israel is the spoiled brat, kicking and screaming, until it only gets what it wants. It’s this reason why this conflict continues, and it doesn’t rest on Hamas’s shoulders. It lies on Israel’s.

Gasp! I’ve been shamed. Wait, no I haven’t. I have addressed the settlement issue. Israel is right. The Palestinians and the “international community” (and that includes the EU) are wrong. The Palestinians are wholly to blame for the conflict. As I’ve already stated, the Palestinians could have had their own nation as far back as 1948, (as much as you hate to go back any further than 1967 (and we thought young-earth-creationists were bad)) a time when they and the international community referred to them as Arabs, had they, as Israel did, accept the U.N. partition plan. As for giving up more land when nothing is expected of the Palestinians, why? Giving up Gaza has proven once again that appeasing terrorists is a losing strategy. By the way, I never said everyone is trying to destroy Israel, only the Islamic world and their anti-Semitic fellow travelers.

The problem with your repeated appeal to the opinions of the international community is that the international community (once again, including the EU) does not have Israel’s best interests at heart. Israel does. And as your mother must have told you as you were growing up – the fact that everybody else is doing it or thinking it, doesn’t make it right, especially when it is the current UN that seems to be the voice of the international community. I would have more faith in the international community if they were as concerned with actual humanitarian disasters like Sudan, Somalia, Tibet, as they were every time Israel is forced to defend itself. I would have more faith in them if they could respond to disasters as quickly and as efficiently as Israel did after the Haitian, Thai, and Japanese disasters.

Why shouldn’t some Arabs help Jews? They aren’t all terrorists, right? Some are able to reject their governmental and societal incitements to Jew-hatred (a hatred that stretches back long before the founding of modern Israel). Comparing the Israeli vs Arab use of human shields; Hamas etc., still uses them to increase casualties, especially civilian casualties, and of course, nobody in the international community cares. Due to condemnation from the international community and internal soul-searching though, Israel no longer engages in that practice.

Your list of alleged list of Arab massacres isn’t very long, but I guess you have to take whatever you can get from whatever source you can find. I’m surprised neither list has the “Jenin Massacre” nor Mohammed al-Dura on them. Another point of interest is that massacres of Jews took place whenever the local Arab population could be riled up enough to attack the Jews. The alleged massacres of Arabs took place during wars either started or provoked by Arabs.

As much as I like to add a bit of levity to this discussion to keep myself entertained, you’ve outdone me in the humor department with the contention that “Egypt and Jordan represented the Palestinian territories and passed these claims onto the PLO” and even found a source for the claim on Wikipedia. But according to this Wikipedia page, Jordan annexed the “West Bank” and offered Jordanian citizenship to WB Arabs. The use of nameless “handpicked representatives” should have been the give-away that this may be another fraudulent claim. And here, Egypt administered Gaza through a military governor. No mention of any “representation”.

In short, Israel is right. Palestinians are wrong. There is no moral equivalence, eye-for-an-eye, or tit-for-tat between them. The Palestinians and their allies-of-convenience, will easily lie if necessary to demonize Israel. It’s a shame that so many people fall for it.

Sorry for the late reply, I went on holiday, and have distracted by other things. So lets begin the fun again. 

For starters, you say that giving back land only appeases the terrorists, but how has the blockade stopped the rocket attacks? Oh wait, they haven’t. The rockets now come from underground tunnels along the Egyptian boarder. The only thing the blockade has done derived the people of the Gaza strip, of actually making a decent living, and restrict their food supply, all in vein attempt to try and overthrow Hamas, even though the blockade has actually entrenched it. Face it, Israel has completely failed defeating Hamas.

Furthermore, your depiction of how the international community is completely wrong, only serves to show people how paranoid you truly are. They and the UN do not exist to give a Israel a rubber stamp of approval. The UN exists to try and maintain peace, which Israel has failed to do on multiple occasions. We are not here to debate about the countless problems of the world. We are focusing on the Israel-Arab conflict.

I do have to congratulate on finding a large number of sources you brought up to back to claims. I’m sure if I spent all my time researching, I can back it all up too, though I very much doubt it’s the Arabs own fault that Israeli militants killed over a hundred  people in Deir Yassin. I do what I can with the sources I have, like this chart:

Or this documentary on how the building of wall has destroyed a community and killed people. No doubt you’ll try disclaim with some rant you found on the internet, but I’ll keep on find more examples. And as those examples keep building up, it becomes pretty clear that not all of them are false.

Israel can no longer play the victim. It is the dominant power in the conflict systematically destroying a people’s livelihoods and killing their culture. It has everything, but denies the Palestinians their own basic rights, and their land. Funny that on the same wikipedia page on Jordan Annexation, it was again reject by the Arab League, and only 3 countries recognised it.  Not a very convincing platform, is it?

The technicality of who was running the Gaza strip, and the West Bank, does not dismiss the rights of the Palestinian people. Even the basically policy of the United States regarding the conflict, is that the pre-1967 boarders should the starting point of negotiations. It is only Israel who rejects this. Even now, they try applying for statehood, and Israel punishes them for it. The rest of the world agrees with Palestine. It’s time to face facts.

Right, the blockades haven’t stopped the rocket attacks.

Wait a minute, Batman! Did he say “blockades” as in the plural of “blockade”? Why yes, he did, Robin. He must be referring to the blockade that no Israel-basher dare mention, the one that Egypt has been enforcing for years on its border with Gaza, necessitating the tunnels for the resupply of bomb and rocket making materials.

Gazans are suffering because of Israel? Oh, yeah, blame the Jews. Because after all, it was Israelis who destroyed the income-producing greenhouses that were left behind when Jews vacated the premises, right? Oh no, wait. They were destroyed by the Gazans themselves; another fact conveniently omitted by Israel haters everywhere. (Yeah I know, you say you don’t hate Israel, but the “facts” and sources you present in your arguments demonstrate otherwise.) But somehow amongst all of the alleged deprivation, there is the Roots Club, a shopping mall, water park, (or maybe not a water park. It looks like Hamas is committing the crimes you accuse Israel of) and a lively beach scene, not to mention a huge market in luxury goods. And we shouldn’t forget the Gaza push to capture the tourist market - check out the link. Oh the suffering! Oh, the humanity!

Israel fails to maintain peace? Is that because they haven’t been able to stop the rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza? But since the UN exists to try and maintain peace, please tell me when and where they have succeeded. I would do it myself, but all of my time has been used up. The UN has become a sad travesty of a noble idea. Refer to my previous comments on the moral vacuity of the UN.

Oh dear, you seem to be upset that it’s so easy to refute your claims. You have the same access to the same Internet that I have. If all you can find is garbage to support your argument, you’d better examine your argument.

Deir Yassin,  Deir Yassin,  Deir Yassin,  everybody shout Deir Yassin. Refer back to my comments on Mohammed Dura and the “Jenin Massacre.” And add the Gaza Beach libel.

Oh no! My opponent has produced the graph showing the number of children killed on both sides.

Are you upset that Palestinian terrorists haven’t murdered more Israeli children? This graph adds nothing to the argument, as the number of dead has no bearing on who’s right or wrong, especially as blame for every dead child on both sides must reside with the Palestinians - who love death. They target Israeli kids, and use their own as human shields. This slows down the IDF, who respect life.  It also serves as fodder for the Israel-haters and deluded fools of the world, who don’t give a damn about murdered Israeli kids, but cry gallons of crocodile tears at the accidental death of Palestinian human shields – uh – I mean kids. But then, it’s like Golda Meir said, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

Speaking of ignoring murdered Israelis, the separation barrier could be dismantled tomorrow if the Palestinians agree to live in peace with Israel. Even though Palestinian homicide bombings have dropped to zero since its construction, saving lives on both sides, the Israel haters complain that Palestinians are being inconvenienced. Yep, many terrorists have been inconvenienced and denied their livelihood (or would it be “deathlyhood”?)

You speak of Palestinian culture. Please give some examples. The only rights Palestinians are denied are those of murdering Israelis. And how is it Palestinian land? It was Jordanian and Egyptian land from 1948 – 1967 before people pretended to care about the Palestinians. Before that it was British, and previous to the British, it was Ottoman land, except for what was bought by Jews.

The fact that the Jordanian annexation was rejected by the Arab League had what effect on the annexation? Nothing, no effect at all. Jordan didn’t care. Neither did any of the current organizations or individuals claiming to be champions of the Palestinian “cause.”

See my previous posts regarding world opinion.

So, once again with the “paranoia?” Here is paranoia. Dig it.

You know, I was trying to be civilised about this, but you seem to have about the same stupidity as Tom Akin, so allow me to crush you like he was in the elections.

First off, when talking about the so called ‘Egyptian Blockade’ you might want to choose a source that isn’t 3 MONTHS OLD!!! The tunnels are now up and running again, though not at their full capacity. This meanwhile cannot be compared with Israel’s attempt to borderline starve Gaza into submission.

But wait, there’s a shop mail? I never knew that. That’s completely changed my perception of the entireNOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT (see how much of a Jackass I’m acting? Though I’m suppose it’s not too hard for you, since all you have to do is look in the mirror). Considering though that Gaza will barely livable by 2020, I think having a shopping mall will be the least of their concerns.  

The point of the graph was to show the overwhelming power of Israel, to show that it can’t pretend that it isn’t to blame. We’ve already seeing it this weekend. A little boy gets killed by Israeli soldiers, which is then followed by an attack. This then followed by the Israeli shelling, which kills 2 Palestinians and wounds 25 others, with the latest update being 4. Now we have rocket fire coming from militants, as Israelis run their shelters. Meanwhile, 5 Palestinians are dead.

This is the reason why the conflict is still ongoing. You can cite all the massacrers you want, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Israel isn’t doing anything to stop the violence. It goes on to protect its soldiers, even after they kill innocent civilians, and recently set a president to make every civilian in Gaza a legitimate target. So much for “respecting life.” This only fuels extremism and is the reason why Hamas still has support. Israel has shown no sign of stopping, so why should they?

You want some prove of Palestinian culture. How about this, or this? In fact, how about an entire website, devoted to it. It’s just like Gandhi said, “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France belongs to the French.”

Since you’re so insistent that the West Bank belonged to Jordan at the time of the 6 Day War, then you must acknowledge it as its sovereign territory. That would mean that when Israel took the land, it was illegally occupying land that belonged to other states. Ha! Either way, Israel is completely and utterly wrong. The best part about it, when after the PLO gained power, the infringement of Egyptian and Jordan territory went to them, so in the end, it’s still Palestinian territory.

The wall may protect you, but it is also denying the Palestinians the right to control their lives, and with it, any chance of peace. Israel is still building it’s settlement, which you have completely failed in justifying. I’ve already mention how the second intifada was caused by Israel’s refusal to give back what doesn’t belong and the rest of the world agrees. I’ve proved you wrong about 5 times in the post, and all you got are bunch recycled one liners that no-one gives a shit about.

So how about it? Do you want some more humiliation?

P.S. That’s a cute picture of the boy. Here’s one with a girl, holding an assault rifle. It’s a shame though that when Israeli’s are taught defensive techniques, it quickly becomes offensive.

Furthermore, what proof from my sources do you have that hate Israel? I never said that I blamed the Jews for anything (But given that’s it your natural reaction to assume so, maybe you should look at who’s actually the racist one here).

Like many Israel bashers before you, when you run out of anything resembling an intelligent argument on the morality of your position, you stoop to invective and name-calling. Fortunately in your case, you still shine with that wacky sense of humor. You, a supporter of the vile, savage terrorists of Hamas, were trying to be civilized? Quite a chuckle-worthy line. And the “acting like a jackass” line, I wasn’t aware that you were acting.

But let’s get down to business:

The “so called ‘Egyptian Blockade’?” Perhaps you should take time off of name-calling and spend more time reading your Electronic Intifada links that talk about Egypt restricting building supplies into Gaza, which sounds vaguely like a blockade, something that didn’t exist until Gazans started attacking Israel after Israel vacated Gaza.

 Speaking of forcing yourself to the miss the point, go and find somebody to reread you my last post about all of the luxuries available in Gaza. And don’t forget about the greenhouses. In other words, if anyone in Gaza is starving, it’s the fault of Hamas and the Gazans.

 Yes, Israel does have a more powerful military than Gaza. How that implies blame for anything is anybody’s guess. It does show a knowledge based society that works to improve the lives and protect the lives of its citizens rather than a terror-based society that uses its children and terror-supporting tools like Rachel Corrie as pawns and human sacrifices in its genocidal war against Israel.

 Yes, unfortunately as hard as they try not to, sometimes Israel does inadvertently kill a Gazan human shield. As we’ve seen in previous posts, Palestinians regularly lie. And as we’ve also seen when Hamas kills a kid, (sometimes their own rockets fall into Gaza) they blame it on Israel, just like you try to lay all blame at Israel’s feet.

 You still complain that Israel is doing nothing to stop the violence, but what is Hamas doing? Now that a truce has been agreed to, how long do you think it will be before Hamas begins lobbing rockets into Israel again?

 Using Rachel Corrie or any other isolated incident of Hamas human sacrifice against Israel is simply dishonest. If it were true, there would be many more dead. For more information on this, see Syria. And again, the fuel for extremism is Palestinian society and culture, as seen in your links to Palestinian culture; Yasir Arafat, Fidel Castro, homage to dead terrorists, rock throwing, it’s all there. Cool water slide though in the water park. And I like the kid playing the violin. They need more of that and less of the terrorist-worship.

 Jordan did cede sovereignty to the PLO in 1988. In other words, they weren’t going to fight for it, but they wanted to stick it to Israel. Of course, had the PLO agreed to live in peace, as I’ve said before, there would be a Palestinian state, and no barrier. No matter how hard you try to deny it, the Palestinians can’t have it both ways, constant war and terrorism against Israel and constant claims that they’re victims of Israeli aggression. They are liars, and it’s people like you who allow the lies and the violence to fester and the constant war and death to continue. As long as Palestinians aren’t held accountable more of their children will be cynically sacrificed to the cause of Jew killing. I don’t have to justify Israel’s building in Judea and Samaria. Palestinians insist on war, but they insist, again with your help, of not suffering the consequences of war. Life doesn’t work that way. Actions have consequences.

 Israeli girl holding an assault rifle, oh dear! An Israeli girl practicing and learning to defend herself against the terrorists you support, another chance for you to proclaim a false moral equivalence. Maybe one day she will save lives by shooting a Palestinian dressed in explosives before he can murder a busload of children.

 As for proving me wrong, there’s your wacky sense of humor at work again. You keep saying you don’t hate Israel, but you still blame Israel for Palestinian pathologies that have existed in Islam for centuries. You still believe and propagate the anti-Israel lies. “Blame Israel” is recycled “blame the Jews.” When you choose to ignore Syria and Sudan (among others) to insanely focus on the one Jewish state, yeah, you suffer from “Blame The Jews”.

 So go ahead and rant some more. Call me names. Who cares? You are still siding with the terrorists against the one moral and decent country in the Middle East.

I decided to write this article after I saw photos and reports about a starving child in Yemen, a burned ancient Aleppo souk in Syria, the under developed Sinai in Egypt, car bombs in Iraq and the destroyed buildings in Libya. The photos and the reports were shown on the Al-Arabiya network, which is the most watched and respected news outlet in the Middle East.
The common thing among all what I saw is that the destruction and the atrocities are not done by an outside enemy. The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries. So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?
The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.
These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars.

In other words, in politically incorrect terms, the world tacitly gives exemptions to the Middle East — and expects very little in return. It assumes that the rules that apply elsewhere of civility, tolerance, and nonviolence are inoperative there — and perhaps have reason to so be. Money is made in the Middle East either by pumping out oil that others have found and developed or, less frequently these days, by catering for tourists who wish to see the remains of what others built centuries earlier. Few foreigners decide to spend a relaxing week in Egypt, or to sunbathe on the beaches of Gaza, or to enjoy the wine and cheese of Libya, or to snorkel in the waters off Syria, or to study engineering in Algiers. How many tourists choose to mountaineer in Afghanistan or visit Persepolis or unwind in Pakistan?

The world also assumes a sort of Middle Eastern parasitism: Daily its millions use mobile phones, take antibiotics, hit the Internet, fire RPGs, and play video games, and yet they not only do not create these products that they rely upon, but largely have antipathy for those who do.

Asymmetry is, of course, assumed. One expects to be detained for having a Bible in one’s baggage at Riyadh, whereas a Koran in a tote bag is of no importance at the Toronto airport. The Egyptian immigrant in San Francisco, or the Pakistani who moves to London, expects to be allowed to demonstrate against the freewheeling protocols of his hosts, while a Westerner protesting against life under sharia in the streets of Karachi or Gaza would earn a death sentence. What is nauseating about this is not the hypocrisy per se, but the Middle Eastern insistence that there is no such hypocrisy. We expect the immigrant from Egypt to deface public posters and call it freedom of expression; we expect Mr. Morsi, who enjoyed American freedom while he studied for his Ph.D. and then taught for three years in California, to deny it to others and trash his former host.

Libya tells the story with a terrible irony, but we should understand precisely what is going on and how the situation in Libya differs from that in Egypt. For it is proof of the bankruptcy of Obama policy, but perhaps in a different way from what many people think. So far the U.S. ambassador, four diplomats, and two U.S. soldiers trying to rescue the rest of the staff have been killed. According to a Libyan officer whose unit was helping the American rescue effort, the terrorists seemed to know precisely where the staffers were hiding. Might they have been tipped off by sources in the Libyan government or military? Probably.

What happened in Libya has nothing to do with an obscure video from California; it has everything to do with the question of which side rules Libya. And the relationship of the attacks to the September 11 anniversary was meant to show that the Libyan terrorists supported September 11 and wanted to continue that battle.

The problem in Libya is that Obama got what he wanted and thus set off all the usual Western policy dilemmas, which he always denounced and which have existed in the region for a century. But Obama is not only ill-equipped to deal with these problems. He also either cannot even recognize them or interprets them in ways disastrous for U.S. interests.  For whatever reason, he wants to make nice with people who want to destroy his country. That might have been a forgivable naivete in early 2009, but by this point it is clear that Obama will never change and that four more years in office will not improve him and his administration by one millimeter.

Obama decided, although only after what we are told was a titanic inner struggle, to kill Osama bin Laden because bin Laden launched a direct attack on American soil. But he sees no need to battle those trying to take over the Middle East and crush its people (including women,  Christians, homosexuals) and wipe Israel off the map. Nor does he see the need to wage effective struggle with governments that stand and deliberately do nothing while the American embassy is invaded or the American ambassador is murdered.

There is, indeed, such a thing as cultural superiority, and I, for one, think it’s racist to be unwilling to speak about it. It’s racist to pretend that you’re living up to your potential when you’re not. And because I’m no racist, I’ll allow myself the liberty of pointing out why you’re wrong.

Was Mr. Romney really a “racist” to point out that Israel’s success is not an accident? I think not. Israel’s economy is the product of an open-minded commitment to education. Israeli education needs to improve, but still, consider the culture of the Middle East. In Egypt, one study suggests, 45 percent of women are illiterate; in Israel the figure is about 4%. Is Egyptian female illiteracy also a result of the occupation? Or is it the result of culture? Am I a racist for pointing to those numbers?

Or consider universities. Israel, a tiny country with a tiny budget, ranks far beyond all Arab and other Muslim countries, including those of the Gulf Arab states like Saudi Arabia, which have virtually limitless assets. In a 2009 ranking of the world’s top universities, the Hebrew University ranked No. 102 (shortly thereafter, it climbed to No. 57 on the strength of an award received by a professor of mathematics), Tel Aviv University was No. 114, and the Technion (Israel’s equivalent of MIT) ranked 132.

Yet in contrast, in that same study, there was not a single university in any Muslim country anywhere that made it into the top 250. King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals in Saudi Arabia ranked highest among them at 266, and it was followed by the National University of Sciences and Technology in Pakistan… at No. 350!

Others are ranked far lower. Is the failure of the Muslim world (parts of which have no budgetary constraints at all) to produce even one single worldclass university the result of the occupation? Or is this a matter of culture? Is one a racist to point this out?

Or what about Fareed Zakaria, himself a Muslim, who had this to say: “In the last 50 years, the West progressed and parts of the non-Western world also began modernizing… [But] the Arab world stayed stuck in primitive political and social arrangements. Arab politics is not culturally unique; it is just stuck in a time warp.” Is Zakaria a Muslim racist?